Episode 2: Creating joint courses 

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José Camposano: Although we have the same view on where we want to get to, so the goals and the mission are shared, how we get there tends to be quite different inside each university. 

Minna Kaihovirta: This is European Connections, a podcast where we have meaningful conversations about European university alliances and how they deepen our collaboration. My name is Minna Kaihovirta. I am manager of dialogue in Metropolia University of Applied Sciences, and a member of a communication group within U!REKA, European University. In this episode, we discuss lessons learned from creating joint courses within international alliances. With me, I have today José Camposano, research, development and innovation manager in Metropolia, UAS, and working full-time in U!REKA-related tasks, located in Finland. There are currently 65 university alliances in Europe. All these European universities aim to offer courses to all students throughout the alliance. The idea is great. Students get to choose not only from their own universities’ courses, but from other universities’ course offering as well. And while doing so, there are great opportunities for internationalisation and new ways of learning. In practice, this is not quite as easy as it sounds. Today, we are discussing lessons learned with José. Welcome, José.  

José: Thanks for having me today.  

Minna: Good to have you here. So, let’s focus on U!REKA’s joint courses and the processes behind those. We both have now been working for more than one year in one of the newest European universities, U!REKA, and as we know, all alliances have a specific theme. What is in the focus of U!REKA?  

José: We’ll say the focus of U!REKA comes very much from its name. So, U!REKA is an acronym, where the key letter is the first one, the U, which is all about urban environment and cities and problems and issues that we face in this context. If we look at the explicit or formal definition of the mission of U!REKA, it is related to a broader high-level mission that is set at European level, and that is this vision of transforming all cities in Europe into climate-neutral cities by 2050. And in order to do that, there is a cohort or a group of so-called mission pilot cities that have an even more ambitious target of becoming climate-neutral by 2030. So, these are the ones paving the way forward and setting the way for all of Europe to become climate-neutral in a few years from now. But that is a formal, explicit definition of what our mission is. But I would say that in addition to that, we do have sort of like a hidden mission behind the scenes.  

Minna: Sounds interesting.  

José: [laughs] Yeah, it’s a bit like a hidden, unwritten task. But it’s about the integration and doing more things together. Do all this joint work that we do through education and research. Because nowadays we’re facing European and global challenges that need European answers and solutions. So, things that we cannot really address by ourselves alone, but for which we really need to create these networks and collaborate with more and different stakeholders than what we’re used to.  

Minna: Sounds interesting and very topical in these strange times that we are living in at the moment.  

José: Indeed.  

Minna: So, prior to receiving funding, all alliances do detailed planning, and in these plans, we drafted a plan for four years, set goals and defined resources. What can you tell about the goals for joint education in U!REKA’s case?  

José: Well, there are many [laughs]. We have to do lots of things in terms of education. But overall, the idea is to work more and more in collaboration. So, we have this keyword in front of the word education, which is collaborative. The education we do is collaborative. And then another flavour or style of education is that it’s challenge-based. Meaning that we do things through co-creation, mostly, involvement of stakeholders, but also in the context of real issues and challenges that we’re facing. And that is a north star, the driver that pushes and motivates everything that we do. So, we try to link all types of courses and contents that we develop to real-life problems and real-life challenges in these urban contexts and scenarios. So, the challenges come from our cities and our regions that are also associated partners of U!REKA European University.  

Minna: Sounds very much like University of Applied Sciences’ perspective or point of view. Am I correct?  

José: And that is also one of the key characteristics of U!REKA. When we look at the 64, well, I think it’s now actually 65, alliances in total around Europe, U!REKA is also characterised by having a strong presence of UASs in there and these close links to industry and to our local ecosystems and very hands-on activities that, of course, it’s not better or not to put in a ranking compared to universities doing fundamental research, but it’s really a different focus and a different vision on the type of education and research that we do. And that in our case, it’s not only about the sort of new high-tech, deep-tech solutions, but also on hands-on activities and things that bring value to stakeholders, that bring value to our SMEs, NGOs, companies in our cities and regions, but also to the public sector. Because these are, after all, urban problems for which the associated partners, cities and regions expect an answer. And then in terms of the actual education activities, also we see different, let’s say, levels of complexity on what we need to do, ranging from individual courses aimed at degree students. Then also we have micro-credentials, which are aimed at everyone, but primarily and mostly for lifelong learners. So people across all age groups that are not necessarily going through a full degree program, but that they need to renew their skills. And then we would say at the highest level of complexity and scope are the collaborative or joint programmes that we’re also developing at different levels, bachelor’s, master’s and PhD with different partners.  

Minna: Sounds like there’s a lot to do. So we are now one year into the project or into this development. How far have we gotten now? You described that there are many levels of goals. So how would you say, where are we now?  

José: The question can get very philosophical. I think that the answer as well, depending on how you want to see progress, because we should not underestimate the effort and the time it takes to bring everyone on the same page and reach a common vision on what we’re trying to do. So just the fact that we have now been able to reach this common view of what is challenge-based and collaborative education in U!REKA. That has been a long journey, a long process.  

Minna: I can imagine. 

José: But if you ask about how many courses or joint programmes we have, well, we have barely started with that. We’re still moving forward, but we couldn’t do that before we align around the same view and vision of what is this in the first place and who are we doing this for. So there was a lot of work during the first year on setting these strong bases for collaboration, discussions around key concepts and terminology. And all of this was a co-creative and collaborative process. We had different meetings and forums where we invited teachers, educators and admin support staff to provide their input, how they see co-creation or challenge-based education. And that is there. So we have now a stronger base. This is just a starting point to actually develop those courses and contents and materials.  

Minna: I think this sounds like a very good way of approaching this. In my role, I’ve done a number of workshops, and usually after starting the first phase is always creating a joint understanding or checking that we are on the same boat, that we mean same things when we are saying certain terms or discussing certain topics. So it sounds like you have started from the right place. I think it’s a great sort of achievement that we are here now after one year.  

José: And if I could add something else, is that an additional challenge that we have faced is that also we have to be aware and mindful of the cultural and language differences that are, and we are working with different institutions with very different practices, although we’re all or most of us, either university of applied sciences or technical universities. So on one hand, we do have some similarities when it comes to the education and of course the common mission that we share. But still we have very unique and individual practices inside our institutions. And then if on top of that we add possible barriers due to the language, then it’s slightly more complicated, I would say that what we normally would have in a local environment.  

Minna: But then again, if we think it from the other point of view, it’s even more rewarding when you achieve in something a bit more challenging, don’t you think?  

José: Exactly, yes.  

Minna: So this is how far we have gotten now. What would a dream outcome look like if you would share your dream, what we have achieved during these four years? What would we have in our hands?  

José: Another philosophical question. Perhaps I would refer to the type of societal impact that we want to create and generate. So I think a dream outcome would be that we manage to do research and education in a way that brings value to our different stakeholders involved. First of all, to our students. So this is, let’s say that the main target customer group that we have are students in degree programmes and lifelong learners. So that’s something that is new and bringing added value to them. And then to the other stakeholders, mainly the external ones, the society and the cities and regions that we’re working for. So that what we are developing in this alliance really makes an impact and is something that is bringing new points of views and perhaps a bit more of these European identity and values and dimension that we want and we need so much in these days. And that somehow there is awareness and recognition of the quality of our education and that through this platform or ecosystem in U!REKA, we’re able to reach out to more stakeholders and then they see also that the activities that we’re doing are of high quality. 

Minna: Sounds good. Sounds really like a great goal. And if I remember correctly from our planning, if we think about more from numbers perspective, haven’t we promised that there will be 500 solutions available? So as individual outcomes of courses or projects or else. Do I remember correctly?  

José: Yes. The famous 500 solutions. Now it’s a bit more like at least 500 new solutions because why just stopping there. And because of this high level of ambition, we want to continue, of course, with U!REKA beyond 2027. So we need to aim high. But yes, this is part of the whole discussion. Again, we have already invested a lot of time trying to understand what the solutions actually mean. This is something that will come up from many different sources and involving many different stakeholders. Primarily our students who will be developing through, for instance, their thesis projects or participating in hackathons or getting involved in the research collaborations. But also the researchers themselves as well will contribute to that. So it’s a bit like a joint work, bringing different people together, and then it’s also for us to understand what do we count as a solution, and actually also at scaling up replication of good practices, proven and tested solutions that work or maybe that have been tested in Helsinki or in Espoo but that could also work in Lisbon and Amsterdam and Ostrava and vice versa. So in this whole discussion about the solutions, we see first of all, again, the angle of stakeholder engagement and co-creation, and second, also to be open to different levels of novelty and innovation into that. 

Minna: And sounds also like we are trying to make the most out of our Europe-wide network. So, for example, this using the same solutions that have worked in one place, let’s try to apply them in some other place.  

José: Right. We don’t need to reinvent the wheel.  

Minna: Yeah, exactly. And sounds good that we are ambitious, that we are not stopping at the 500 solutions, but aiming maybe even higher.  

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Minna: Lessons learned during this journey. I mentioned in the beginning that reality is not always quite as straightforward as planned. So let’s some learnings from the first year. What, in your opinion, has been more difficult than expected?  

José: I think this might relate also to what we were talking a bit earlier about this need for speaking a common language and reaching a shared understanding that sometimes we tend to underestimate how much time and effort is required just to bring everyone on the same page. And because we’re all excited and have these ambitious goals that we really want to get already hands on. Let’s develop the courses, let’s do the micro credentials and the programmes. But that takes a lot of preparation and we need to really have the basis for that. Perhaps being able to create these sort of boundary objects or ways of involving different experts, but that they also have something to grab on and reach that common language and understanding of what we’re trying to do. I would see that as perhaps something that has been challenging during the first year. And another point could be, and also I think we spoke briefly about this, the fact that although we have the same view on where we want to get to, so the goals and the mission are shared, how we get there tends to be also quite different inside each university. To give you an example, for the development of the courses and micro credentials, we have been discussing and looking at ways of providing enablers and support to our academic staff, our teachers and heads of programmes on how to actually develop those things. The solutions that have come up are also very different. In the case of Metropolia, we launched two months ago or three months ago this internal seed funding call through which we invited our teachers to come up with their own ideas. What things you would like to develop with U!REKA partners. And this has proven quite successful, so we got many applications for that and we got also very promising ideas chosen in this first round. So it seems that we can continue with this internally. But in the case of one of our partners, Frankfurt, they also came up with another way of supporting these same goals is through the establishment of these U!REKA professorships. So they have named staff inside the institution that has some time reduction or some working hours specifically dedicated to U!REKA education development. So then we see that although we have the same goals, the same view, the implementation strategies and methods are also different. So finding these formulas and these solutions is also a big challenge. That’s something we have seen over the last year. 

Minna: It’s a bit like in orienteering where everybody is aiming towards the same spot, but people are finding a bit different routes in order to get there. A bit like that. 

José: So we go around with this mapping, which we have the X or the target place that we want to go, but then the routes are slightly different.  

Minna: Yes, and we just have to learn to live with that, that people arrive with different ways and different maybe speeds even, but should be happy as long as we share the same goal. 

José: Indeed, it’s a bit of like a balancing act. And it’s also quite challenging to handle that on one hand, having common goals and view, but then also having to respond to our own realities. The analogy we have used quite often when we talk about U!REKA is that we’re doing sort of like a mini EU, where we have the member states, so the universities, each one with their own cultures and ways of working and living, but then we have this new layer on top of that where we have these common challenges that we’re facing and this common drive and interest in solving these things together.  

Minna: Really interesting comparison. I quite like that. And as I think about my role also working closely with U!REKA, I think I can relate to that mini EU analogy of yours. Well, I have promoted ways of bringing in facilitated sessions and other participatory methods within our own university, Metropolia. And we’ve had a number of similar sessions also within U!REKA, sometimes face to face whenever there’s a chance, more often virtually. My main takeaway from these sessions has been that each and every time understanding has deepened and there has been more and more feeling of sharing the same goals. Is your experience something similar?  

José: Absolutely. I have sort of like mixed feelings about the face to face versus virtual approach. Because on one hand, U!REKA also has the strong component on sustainability, climate neutrality. So we try to be environmentally friendly and reduce travel. So why we would need to be flying around people all the time. This is not so good for the environment. But then on the other hand, when we manage to bring people face to face, it has proven very effective at helping us address bottlenecks or coming up with creative solutions to things that we’re facing. So that’s a bit of mixed feeling. On one hand, yes, having more meetings could help us bring everyone on the same page and aligning around the same goals, but then there are meetings and meetings. So if we have people just sitting all the time in front of a computer, they might feel like, OK, why yet another meeting that we have in an email. And then if we have the chance to get people in the same room doing perhaps something more hands on, a workshop and more collaborative, it’s very effective indeed. And then this is what we try to make the most out of the events that we have in the U!REKA network. So, for instance, having now the U!REKA Connects conference or event in May in Helsinki, all the partners and people involved in U!REKA are so excited to bring everything at the same place because then this is one of these opportunities that we need to take advantage of. People coming together in the same location and then having this sort of more direct input and feedback on how to move forward.  

Minna: And also co-creation being one of our values. So I think these face to face moments really offer a great spot for co-creation. So actually doing something that is a bit more difficult to do virtually. I’m all for people working together and not just a room full of people listening to one person who’s giving a presentation. So workshops, it will be. I can promise you that. Well, bringing people together is part of the solution, but it’s not the cure all method. How else have we tackled these obstacles of people coming from different viewpoints and angles? Is there any other examples you could share? 

José: Yeah. So it is true that bringing people together really helps to get up to speed and bring everyone on the same page. Also, it’s very useful to crowdsource or generate new ideas, brainstorm how to move forward. But then on the other hand, oftentimes we also have this sort of cacophony where we have many ideas and topics and then we need to make sense of that, and we need a bit of like structure and not only diverging, but also converging into some path forward. In those cases where we see there are too many angles, it has helped a lot also to delegate and distribute certain tasks into smaller groups, and letting also our experts and specialists inside our institutions provide us the path forward. This is connected to the sort of hidden mission of U!REKA I was talking about, which is, let’s say, long-term integration and institutional development process where we need to also make sure that we’re able to delegate and embed U!REKA throughout everything that we’re doing in our universities. So it’s not something that we need to take for ourselves, for the people who are most closely involved in U!REKA, but also try to involve our different units. So I would say on one hand, one strategy, yes, having these sort of more collaborative co-creative meetings when we have a lot of people, but in other cases, knowing as well when we need to delegate and distribute to the people who are already working on these things. We have so many talented experts across institutions, for instance, on micro-credentials, that they have been working with their national groups on what these micro-credentials mean. Who are the target customers of the micro-credentials. What are the criteria from an educational and technical point of view. So then we invite them, we involve them, and they bring very valuable input to the table as well.  

Minna: So it’s sort of a balancing in between those, so when to invite people together and when to delegate and do it separately with the… 

José: Correct. 

Minna: …people. And yeah, that might take some time to find the right balance.  

José: It does. And also that it’s a learning process. I think, even for us within our own universities to understand, well, we need to develop these, let’s take again the example of 18 micro-credentials that we need to co-create by 2027 to understand who in our institutions has already been working on this. Who can provide some guidance on the technical implementation angles because that needs to be offered to some educational platform. Who can guide us in terms of learning outcome design. So how those learning outcomes should be put there. Who is involved in national forums and discussion groups to benchmark and compare with other institutions in Finland. This same topic and with the Ministry of Education. So getting to know who is who is also learning process for which U!REKA has been quite useful. And similar thing with their partner universities. And then, well, first step, we bring the experts. We identify the experts and then the second stage is that we bring them together. So it’s not only enough that we know who’s doing this in Metropolia, but we need to also link them to their peers in Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Ostrava and so on. 

Minna: And I’d like to take this one step further. So first we have to know the right people, bring them together, but what needs to be done then, in my opinion, is creating a safe space. That’s one thing that I’ve learned during my years at the University of Applied Sciences and especially recently in my role as manager of dialogue. So the dialogue is created when there is a safe space created where everyone is encouraged to share unfinished thoughts or sort of to think aloud, if you say so, without being judged. I’ve seen that we’ve taken steps towards this also within U!REKA. How far along the way are we, in your opinion? 

José: Well, if I might rephrase a bit the question, because I think this is something that doesn’t stop. So I wouldn’t see this as a sort of a process that has a start and end and that we are at a certain stage on that. I would say it’s something continuous and permanent that we always should ensure that there are these safe spaces for dialogue and conversation. I’m involved in two quite challenging work packages because they are very content heavy. Those are U!REKA Shift, the work package on research, it’s number five, and work package on education, number six. And we have also very dedicated and passionate people involved in these work packages. So I’m not going to lie that conversations tend to get also very intense, very heated very often. But we have made it clear, and I think everyone is aware, that it’s always about how we’re gonna develop contents and activities. This is never, let’s say, more on a personal angle that these intense conversations come into place. So the safe space has been promoted and created by raising awareness that we’re all different, that we come from different cultures, that we use different languages. In some cases, those languages might sound a bit harsh or direct. For example, we often hear that Finns and Dutch are quite harsh. The Germans always have very clear opinions to voice. So we have cultural differences that we need to take into account. I would say one step to be mindful and aware of that. Second, to realise that we’re all on the same boat. And even if we have different approaches and ways of working, we do our best to find solutions to work together. Then a third point, because there always needs to be at least three points, I would say that here is where a bit this sort of facilitation and moderation work comes into place through our different work package leaders, task leaders and coordinator of U!REKA, to help mediate whenever there is some sort of difference in points of views. And if needed, although this hasn’t really been so necessary, I would say, de-escalation. But sometimes we need separate meetings, one-to-one, or conversations to really try to find common views and points on solutions.  

Minna: Sounds good. And I’m delighted to hear that there are passionate people involved because usually when people are feeling passionately about something, they also tend to do their best on reaching the target and getting to the goal. And I also agree with you that sometimes external help is needed. Sometimes the facilitation methods, for example, can help a group to move on or to let go something that has been creating some sort of situation or challenge within a group. And it’s good to hear that you have also found ways to move forward when needed.  

José: Yeah, and you mentioned also, because the key word also when you said external facilitation, someone who has a bit like a fresh outsider perspective that also can help and see things in a more neutral, balanced way. Because it also happens, we’re so embedded in the work that we’re doing, our reality of our conversations that sometimes we need this sort of outside of the box thinking. And someone has said, OK, let’s see both sides. How do we move forward and try to balance and take into account those.  

Minna: And it’s also a wise thing to do to reach out for external professionals when needed and then continue as a group.  

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Minna: Well, let’s move on to the last part, the learning outcomes. I’d love to hear what you have personally learned during the process during the first year of U!REKA.  

José: Too much. [laughs] We would need another podcast just for that. 

Minna: Maybe top three findings.  

José: Top three. OK, so this sort of European angle and context. I think U!REKA has kind of been very useful to understand what is the bigger picture. Why are we doing this in the first place. To try to understand how our students could benefit from increased mobility, from having these new collaborative courses or joint programs. So I think that one learning angle has been on this European dimension. Then the second one, personally for me, has been more on the education development side. So I do have a bit more experience on the research side. With education, perhaps for me understanding everything that is required behind the scenes in our institutions in order to set up new degree programmes or to develop proper learning objectives or outcomes, curricular design. So all of these things require a lot of support behind the scenes that it’s not always so explicit or visible. So that has also been quite a big learning point during this first year. And then the third one could be more on the human angle, on human aspects and engagement. How to motivate people, how to encourage people to participate. Because the fact is that we have very ambitious targets, very ambitious goals that we cannot address alone by ourselves. We need a critical mass of people and in many cases, I mean the harsh truth, the harsh reality is that people with very limited time availability or perhaps limited resources to create or develop contents. So finding these sort of strategies to engage and involve people, that also has been a good learning point during this first year.  

Minna: I can really relate to the last one. In my role, I’ve stepped in in many phases where we’ve needed co-creation and getting people engaged, and my main learning has been that people are very open to trying new methods to have someone facilitate a session and generally promoting dialogue. That’s something that we have gotten quite used to in our own university, but I’ve been really happy to learn that people are eager to know and learn more also within all our partner universities. Even if they don’t have a lot of background in these kind of methods or working in these in some way new ways. I’d be really happy to learn that there’s lots of openness towards this kind of approach.  

José: There is and that goes across all levels from, let’s say, the upper management and leadership of the university, all the way to the grassroots staff that everyone is motivated and interesting. So we have not seen, at least not yet, the situation where someone would say like, no, I’m not interested in this. I don’t want to do this. That hasn’t happened. And in fact, in most cases, people practically reach out and say, well, yeah, this sounds interesting this European ecosystem, how do I get involved. But the challenge tends to be more on the practical aspects. The time management, the resource availability, and that’s what tends to hinder a bit. But it’s never a lack of motivation or a lack of interest.  

Minna: Yeah, that’s a really hopeful thought to take with us from this episode. To finish, would you have any words of encouragement for fellow Alliance professionals? 

José: Words of encouragement. Don’t give up. Let’s hang in there. I think also, on a more serious note, that we need to see this as a gradual process. We need to advance step by step, and although we have, again, these very ambitious targets, we need to develop 18 micro credentials. We need to have hundreds of open courses. We need to have this many (-) [0:37:56]. Not think so much about the numbers, but really the journey, the process that we continuously keep learning about our institutions, we keep learning about our partners and we keep improving our level of integration. And that’s really what matters in the long term. Of course, we also need to develop things, but in the end, the journey is also so important in all of this. So I would say that the word of encouragement is to not give up and also see value in this process that we’re all part of now.  

Minna: Thank you, José, for sharing your thoughts. Thank you for joining me today, and thank you for listening.  

José: Thanks to you so much for the invite.  

Minna: It was a pleasure. This podcast is produced by the Metropolia University of Applied Sciences as part of the U!REKA European University Alliance collaboration.